Farmers have not been resolved peaks, while the climbers developed using the contradiction between the two lines, for the past Yangshuo climbing activities have occurred in some of the problems, we hurt. this contradiction, just to say, not of any party unilateral problems, must be reasonable solution to this contradiction, to make rock climbing in Yangshuo healthy, stable development. We thought for a long time, do the following this. merits and demerits, the fact that the future will prove.
Yangshuo we contracted transport facilities, suitable for beginners to climb all the peaks, including: Golden Cat Cave, bottle mountain peak and copper door thumb mountain, the contracting is the real contract, we pay a one-time-related village or economic cooperatives, and had the full right to use these peaks. Since then:
1, any more than free climbers climb mountains in the process, absolutely no longer be any interference!
2, we assume responsibility for maintenance of lines.
3, we support the opening line of large-scale behavior.
4, we also prohibit the peaks above, without our permission for any commercial rock climbing!
specific implementation approach as follows:
1, any rock climbing or rock climbing peaks in the above practitioner institutions to engage in rock climbing, go to the second floor in the building industry in West discreet Red Cliff climbing bars for registration, and handle the relevant procedures, to receive Permit sharing the spirit;
3, individuals or institutions and organizations in the commercial rock climbing activities in the process of registration, required to pay certain costs of use and management of mountain, before climbing in these mountains for commercial activities. The main use of management costs used to cover the cost of the peaks and line maintenance contract expenses, the excess part of the climbing for the development of new venues and routes.
4, we will send someone to regularly check and maintain climbing routes; the other line if any climbers found problems, please contact it directly to the Red Cliff climbing our staff, we will schedule in the first line maintenance staff to solve the problem.
5, open line of rock climbing in Yangshuo in the open lane provided can enjoy the Red Cliff a full set of free room and board, all related to rock climbing equipment, equipment and personnel supporting open line.
We also accept any form of financial contributions include: coupon, and the pegs, which are conducive to large-scale open line of rock climbing in Yangshuo supplies.
We sincerely hope that through the joint efforts of all rock climbing enthusiasts, development and standardization of rock climbing in Yangshuo, Yangshuo become so real and pure sense of the sacred rock climbing.
Sunshine ~ Cliff Rock Climbing Club
2004 ��April 29
> Hello! climbing in Yangshuo we represent and the people look to you for coming here welcome! and wish you Yangshuo, in climbing to enjoy endless fun! we all know, has been in rock climbing in Yangshuo chaotic state, also have occurred in this or that problem, so, in order to better enjoy the climbing you can bring the physical and mental pleasure, hope you can go to Yangshuo West Street is located on the second floor of the Red Cliff House, discreet industry climbing bars, for the relevant registration procedures, and receive a climbing permit. you can enjoy climbing mountains in the following fun: golden cat hole, bottle Hills, Thumb Peak, bronze doors Hill.
free if you are a climber, that is: your climbing behavior the nature of any business, then this registration process is completely free of charge;
commercial rock climbing if you are the leader, must pay a management fee, please ask the bar to the Red Cliff rock climbing.
If you are open line who, in the opening line during which you can enjoy a full set of Red Cliff to provide free room and board, all related to rock climbing equipment, equipment and personnel supporting open line.
In addition, the registration process, you can consult the staff of Red Cliff rock field and line, we provide free information service rock climbing.
of the above in order to avoid to bring you more trouble, which caused little trouble to you, we apologize!
wish you climbing happy!
Sunshine ~ Cliff Rock Climbing Club
2004 �� 4 �� 29 ��
mh Published Date :2004-04-30 10:31:31
climbers can listen to the views if the continuous improvement of the policy to let everyone think you fair, and that we will actively support you. in the implementation process to the management of your conscious as was standard, and transparent will reduce your own future trouble in operation.
if you can continue to develop your approach to the opening of the country has significant climbing areas.
Published in June next year :2004-04-30 14:46:20
paste the landlord looked after, and I'm excited to, but I ask what was missing.
mira_l in the phrase. Red Cliff This safeguarding the interests of the majority of free climbers, but if not from the legitimacy to deal with this matter, going to protect the interests of Red Cliff.
-30 13:57:28
such an approach can indeed solve the rock and the relationship between local villagers, free climbers on the provision of voluntary service is free and pleasant move.
in terms of an open letter to the editor All provisions not only reasonable but also very beneficial to the development of rock climbing in Yangshuo. serious support!
but the problem could be: as a club, not only the promotion of local institutions, and can not be climbing the local unit in charge of Therefore, registration is requested, or provide free room and board, etc., is the club's internal regulations of a subjective unit of the public or local rules and regulations, compliance and regulatory requirements to reflect, is this a legitimate basis?
to the present situation: I contracted, I charge, it should be a legal basis, if so, then of course set up.
but other free, registration, various other commitments, it may be reasonable and not necessarily within the legal provisions, if such has been and has been climbing toward the benefit and development is of course the perspective is a good thing, but unfortunately one day happen if the operator or other changes, some things may be difficult to speak clearly.
If this open letter by the head of the local rock climbing Units issued, the climber climbing unit in charge need to be registered, the legal nature of it may be a little more. hope this is not worrying me.
like to speak now in the jar first, I have to register cell phone numbers, what legal basis? While the user reads the groom will be kept confidential but if one day he will sell my information, I turn to?
so reasonable and do not necessarily valid for these things, I still have reservations, whether now appears to be very good or very bad, we need to seriously think about the introduction of the.
> a suggestion: since the rule-making process, should establish the mechanism of interaction between managers and climbers. This is conducive to public confidence in establishing a good basis for comparison.
discuss! field of discussion, is not too happy, rock climbing paradise of Yangshuo, China, the future of this deep concern, but also concerns about China's development of rock climbing. During a Red Cliff man has filed a letter to the major forum for the open letter to the climber, so everyone read an open letter to this high-sounding. do not look good, after reading everyone feeling ran high, and very indignant. In particular, we see that some climbers are blinded by the truth in the case of thread support, we find it intolerable, it is necessary some of the truth available to the public for people to discuss!
First of all, I think contracting pros and cons of this field is climbing mountains, and Lee (1) is as Cliff said, you can temporarily solve the problems of farmers; but put long perspective, this can be called the Red Cliff climbing in the history of China first, this is to try to set an first down to the farmers market rent, near Yangshuo, farmers will certainly follow suit, as long as a downtown downtown, real money can be white, who knows better than you white climb. that any of our future in Yangshuo opening lines of the first places to consider contracting Hill Field, and then open line. I do not know this precedent will result in any significant climbing in Yangshuo (2), which is basically rented Yangshuo Cliff almost all existing rock field, equal to that is the Red Cliff climbing Yangshuo has a monopoly market, I think who are the real beneficiaries, sensible people should be clear.
participate in the discussion summarized some climbing in Yangshuo's point of view, as follows:
1, the development of rock climbing in Yangshuo are there many years, and under the care of the people and efforts, now has more than one hundred lines of the , Red Cliff May last year, opened as a rock climbing club, business so far I think we should take off from climbing to earn a lot in it, but as far as I know, so far, all the climbing in Yangshuo club, Red Cliff is the only Yangshuo, a development not in any line of the club, mean that they use someone else's line to open a full year earned the money, but now his turn to appear as savior, and I think that now you assess what the fee income people? < br> 2, you are contracting you all the climbing wall to open a good line, I thought the line's original intention, whether private or Yangshuo the club open, we are following a principle of resource sharing it, No one ever since I got it on the line is to make money now, you are just another club closing the business led the money, sounds good, because we made money from here, but I wonder if Cliff had not thought about, and he paid The money is only contracted to the farmers, we mean that you are stealing the fruits of labor, and then led their own to make money, I think you should not be considered a part of you earn in return for you to get open line who ah?
3, Red Cliff has been in an open letter to the spokesman for rock climbing in Yangshuo itself, but if the Red Cliff climbing in Yangshuo was a sincere wish to solve the problem should be to communicate with other club has it, but as far as I know, Cliff Hill in the contract Yangshuo, the former did not field any climber had to communicate, until now, there are clubs do not know the way to solve the issue of farmers Chibi not the only choice, but at least I admire the owner of the business vision, thousands of pieces a year the cost can close your eyes and earn, I think this time the boss must be laughing in the clutching his cup, but the people creating wealth that is understandable, but I can not see people climbing the name of saving the flag to cover up Yangshuo!
4, on the rock climbing to receive the so-called be deceived, to welcome you care about climbing in Yangshuo China, the development of rock climbing and active thread to all friends, we should for this kind of damage, the development of rock climbing to name the guise of commercial fry behavior, we should take action to safeguard the freedom of rock climbing and healthy development!
Date :2004-05-01 11:57:33
good, powerful enough Red Cliff, charges for all other clubs Yangshuo 20 RMB per person, this is tantamount to breaking the people's way of getting money, after climbing in Yangshuo is the Red Cliff monopoly profession. It is worth mentioning that: it is necessary to conduct the Red Cliff a comparison with the farmers, the farmers charged the cost of the club is about 5 yuan per person. So, Red Cliff is really black one!
and in the open for a deal with the club in question, but do not want and a lot of local people in the dark waiting for an opportunity to deal with harassment. This largely determines whether I choose to go to Yangshuo. I believe many people think rock climbing: Why do I pressure should protect my precious holiday mood in the local villagers? from my rock climbing areas around the world experience, the uncertainty of security is impeding the development of climbing in Yangshuo Resort's cause of death. have these problems, sharing principle everyone's concerns are for their feedback on current and future practices. we said, the person must respond to the Red Cliff, is ignored by the surface is placed in the next reaction. In fact, as commercial climbing organizers, they understand the needs of climbers . and as a commercial organization, constraints, there are many aspects of Red Cliff: They not only have to consider the voice of rock climbing circles, they have to listen to the views of the competent authorities, they want to hear the views of potential customers, they want to hear their views on the purse. to think you want to make trouble for the local villagers how people reason with you have to do? you want and they come thick, and their consumption, go to the Government and the public security and deal with them, and that you can make them hear you say, that they do not understand rock climbing. Now you do not need the trouble, which is the maximum credit for this approach of Red Cliff.
I'm not saying that many of the above is not the problem you mentioned, nor that the practice of the Red Cliff clubs are right now. I do not want to go first of all try to figure out other people do whatever the motives, I see the results. I think it's practice is to receive the climb climbing resource people (even business people climbing) an important step in his hand. Other Business Club would like to see profit; opening line had hoped to climb and more people enjoy their routes; ordinary climbers want to climb but little trouble as possible. The hope is that the returns to different people. Yangshuo climbing considerably reduced the confusion This return. maximized the return on what I said above > Speaking of specific issues, if the operation can be transparent, fair, not afraid of the issue on the table, these specific issues such as how can we talk ... return to the open informants in particular, which are relatively good operation, but how avoid triggering the areas have been free to climb into the contract will further explored. Many Yangshuo issues should come forward by local trade associations, and local coordination with one voice solution. I remember in 2001 mentioned in the Chamber of Commerce or the guild thing, but if no progress. now come forward to complete the Business Club Association function, if indeed it says can increase those returns, the club should therefore be a greater reward, because if it does not mess things look , and bad luck is that it assumed. do not worry about scarcity and uneven distribution on the bad.
br> Red Cliff is the only use of these peaks of Yangshuo (gold cat hole, bottle mountain peaks thumb, middle finger peak, with the Gate Hill) rights (right of mountain) the legal club! mm Liuzong
and wine forum response on this matter br> Liuzong Good for you. out ���� the.
people very sensitive to block people getting money, you move one that can be regarded as a monopoly Yangshuo commercial rock resources, but I do not know how you coordinate and Richard, Surge, Zhang Thunder, Xitang, Han Jun, the old history, Echo and other practitioners of Yangshuo climbing the interests of commercial distribution, they will obediently into submission, increase their operating costs, pay to you? more troublesome is that many lines or They opened, for example Akika hill in the bottle opened a lot of lines. doing so may intensify the conflict.
I know that store operating pressure you, but to do so, operability worth considering.
I have you as a friend, so language is not so pleasant to the ear, but lost than won, hope you think twice.
ldolphin:
I also think there should be open to discussion.
climbing practitioners as one of Red Cliff to other practitioners were awarded a certificate, received management fees, I am afraid it is not very appropriate.
this matter, it is possible through the establishment of trade associations to resolve it? you to settle with the farmers in the form of alliance between and jointly safeguard the line coordinate the development of industry prices.
alliance I know this kind of thing in China compared Nangao, but I do believe that together, good for everyone. Why do not pull head?
mh:
existing law or the system on the right? Even though I am one of the industry, but because I am a contractor, according to the provisions of the contract within
, I was in the system have the power to allow or not allow other people what to do. This kinds of rules are reasonable and even
to legal I do not know, but seems to understand the so popular now.
people did not say how the decision to pay the amount. can accept that whether it is worthwhile to look at these clubs. because of dealings and farmers have hit
costs, not just the specific charges against local disturbance, as well as hidden costs including potential customers as a result of
Yangshuo Yangshuo climbing rather than to environmental uncertainty.
short for now at least how to rock climbing in and relating to people with relatively rational discussion, and more than the original deal with those rogue
are stronger. I think this is a good direction to the development.]
mira_l:
If this announcement is mainly engaged in rock climbing has been a local institution recognized and approved by the local government, and there are certain time limits, of course, is a good thing. but may the problem is not so simple, for example as follows:
* reasonable and legitimate questions about
1. If the Red Cliff is a new rock wall contractor and develop their own line or from the above After the implementation of said notice, such as announcements in support of other climbers, There may be legitimate.
2. If the Red Cliff contract Yangshuo now the as long as the opening lines are requested not to use the development line of Red Cliff legal position and possible.
Red Cliff is not because most of his lines contracted developers, and now contracted down these cliffs, of course, in theory, he has the legal basis for charges or management. But if this is equivalent to other people's work Club fulfill their obligations.
**
on the management of eligibility if required all the climbers to Yangshuo The only climbing the local promotion agencies, of course, can not be aid agencies or authorities, then he has to allow or not allow others the right to rock climbing, or whether there is sufficient qualification to monitor other people's rock climbing? If contracting for its own and development of the wall, it is like a park, of course, tickets and whether to allow tourists to enter the right, but if the situation is now, possibly as a foreign climber, he received preferential treatment after the Red Cliff, still have this question: rock climbing, and who has power to release the documents , and then I promise to provide free high quality for everyone climbing in Guangdong advice, providing free shuttle car, which is not good service ah, but I have no ;
as registration, management, unless you own the place, and through legal means, or in an open environment, activities, may be only the relevant authorities or industry associations and other institutions have such qualifications, right? < br> *** on the Red Cliff: For now, he is doing may be a good thing, but over time, personnel changes, the effective time of the announcement how long? whether fair to everyone, who is monitoring?
First, who is now paid to ensure that the Red Cliff on the benefits received?
Second, who does not completely solve the cash if the Red Cliff, but only to honor the notice positive aspects of their own problems arising.
Because if we really all are fully implemented according to this announcement, the equivalent of short-term economic benefits, at least so the management of Red Cliff on the scope of climbing crowd, than, as big as the Chinese Mountaineering Association. Here first is the implication of unlimited business opportunities Oh.
So, although the overall direction of view, Yangshuo Climbing Villagers can finally get rid of the nuisance that short-sighted, of course, is a good thing. But if you can not resolve with the Manager of the reasonable and legitimate, I think the announcement of such reservations should be. If the notice is a local rock climbing department or professional Association issued, registration, managed by competent authorities or industry associations, so that it better. Some things looked very good, but if the lack of supervision, it is very easy to maximize the benefits toward the direction of a particular is an independent operating profit institutions, then.
above is just my unfounded cranky, like rock climbing as a person, without him, and just want a more relaxed environment, free climbing it. If the Department offend Or I villain heart of a gentleman's belly, then so be it.
cracks:
to settle the villagers, the clubs, the interests of all climbers not an easy task, trying to establish an order of the Red Cliff, The starting point is good. As a climber, a trip to receive a Yes, how long can eat a free lunch.
dela0835:
1, as a long-term climbing in Yangshuo, today suddenly see someone to represent Yangshuo issued in the name of all climbers above comments, feel strange, because In addition to staff around the outside of Red Cliff, all I do not know this, how to represent at all?
2, so the practice after the opening line in the other parts of the development of new lines will cause the future to follow the local villagers to fight is contracted, it goes whether there will be opening line in the development of new routes in Yangshuo?
3, we all know, Red Cliff contract the lines of these places is a long line of those opened since the concerted efforts of many developed, then what basis is now once the contract Chibi the ground can boon, whether open lines should have the right to charge?
4, Red Cliff is what government agency? what authority issued climbing permits? since it is free then why climbers climb free card?
5, since the contract from the mountain, whether there will be other clubs to rock under the contract to collect tolls land?
6, present farmers are no longer charged the cost of free climbers and rock climbing without the need to receive the so-called card! !! then such practices and procedures for multi-channel farmers charges in addition to what is the difference? just a money man for it.
7, this phenomenon once started, it will lead to other clubs or organizations began to frantically contracting with a development value of the wall?
8, climbing from a commercial point of view, whether this is a commercial monopoly? Over time, the possibility of Yangshuo climbing up there?
continue to focus on the hh
good people and do a good deed is not necessarily associated with discussion, as a outsider Yangshuo or Red Cliff, I think it is difficult to understand exactly who in the end decided to contract in the end want to do rock, do not know that he kind a bad heart. If this man really is a love of climbing the whole person and really want it easy to solve the issue of farmers and pure heart, we might have some of the discussions a bit of a certain kind of person, he did not necessarily out of a good thing.
people and things may be four cases:
1. He was a good man, and know the right way, want to do a good thing hands in the air support that of course we hope and believe he can do it, even if ultimately not do this, we only regret.
2. He was a good man, want to be a good thing, but to know why, but for the reckless. Whether Finally he succeeded or failed, are very risky, if such things to other people involved or the public interest, I think that support should not be arbitrary because it does not quite and let this good man to hold public interests to gamble? even if he is a sage, I also have the right to decide their own interests related to trade-off, there is no need for some support.
3. He is an ill-wishers who suddenly took it like a day the public interest to do a good thing about you, if he really means to solve the problem and have bound them to do so, I may view it; but if not the embodiment of a constraint, then no matter how sweetly put it, I have the right to decide to choose their own interests, because these matters of public interest, and if done, far-reaching, and some things, such as contracts or price, when after the specific implementation, it is difficult looking back, if a rock You contract this year, next year does not want to contract, it can do next year for free? as a profitable club, to be bad, maybe it there this year, next year does not exist. But as a free climber free commitment possible existence of this club there this year, next year, the club does not exist, or changed hands, do not change hands along with this promise can be fully implemented? big discount if they promise not seem a good regulation, you are happy today desperate applause post support, tomorrow may give cancel. may Yangshuo, line development, which in terms of many climbing friends, and you do not have much relationship, or just a passer-by as long as you avoid the uncertainty of farmers OK or are you just what a dish will not only business club with you and hope that this is the most secure. But if such a thing contracted has become a practice, it may also in Beijing, White River, in the Guangzhou Baiyun Hill, had stores in Shenzhen, in Yunnan, Sichuan and so local there, if a rock does not route your contract, you develop, you will make it look like a park charges, compliance with procedures, of course, it is reasonable and legal, but suddenly one day you find yourself in a few days to open a hard-line contract went to the people, the man also shot over your shoulder, said: Brother, thank you for your work, later told me to register for the climb, I guaranteed free of charge. or one day someone told you: brother, had contracted down my shop, we require you to climb to about my assessment, we very familiar with each of two pull-Han you do I will send a free climb the certificate to you. you do not do?
4. a safe name with bad hearts of people earn high-sounding slogan of thinking, maybe he really did earn, and then went, maybe he lost a, Then came, of course, the results should fall on his head. But even if he losses, and suffered the consequences of failure, but ultimately the people still want to get away, he could not at all interested in rock climbing, just want to make a pen, but even so the final loss of this man's vitality, the final result, for the other climbers who like Yangshuo, what is it? do because people will be gone immediately to restore the original order of around free? for One was destroyed in the public interest, the actual failure of the operator, and finally hurt the interests must be enjoying all the public.
Maybe I said too much, but it simply comes down to is this: If we can not is clear in the end of a reasonable notice and legal situation, in the end the specific operator what the heart is safe, and might have reservations on these announcements.
to solve the harassment of farmers there are many ways, the contractor is only one way in which , whether free or commercial operator climbers, to everyone in a little more long-term interests of Yangshuo, best not only to solve the present little harassment to freely choose to support a not very perfect solution.
If the management, commitment by industry associations or local authorities announced and implemented, may be more stable only under supervision and implementation.
Published Date :2004-05-03 00:14:55
set a very bad precedent, the farmers have tasted the sweetness of the real benefits obtained.
the day when Cliff left the Yangshuo, Yangshuo to will return to the initial state? I think farmers are not, he will continue out of trouble until the second date Chibi appears.
fans still free now, when the contract costs ran Red Cliff can not afford the time I believe that the wool from the sheep out of course.
line developers but also to develop new lines? He will be worried that the new line of peasants to fight for the club near the contract, to follow out of trouble.
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